diff --git a/messkit/commands.py b/messkit/commands.py
index f93f737..eb962fb 100644
--- a/messkit/commands.py
+++ b/messkit/commands.py
@@ -25,15 +25,10 @@ Messkit commands
 """
 
 import os
-import stat
 import sys
 import subprocess
 
-import sqlalchemy as sa
-from alembic.util.messaging import obfuscate_url_pw
-
 from rattail import commands
-from rattail.files import resource_path
 
 from messkit import __version__
 
@@ -57,203 +52,67 @@ class Command(commands.Command):
     long_description = ''
 
 
-class Install(commands.Subcommand):
+class Install(commands.InstallSubcommand):
     """
-    Install a Messkit app
+    Install the Messkit app
     """
     name = 'install'
     description = __doc__.strip()
 
-    def run(self, args):
+    # nb. these must be explicitly set b/c config is not available
+    # when running normally, e.g. `messkit -n install`
+    app_title = "Messkit"
+    app_package = 'messkit'
+    app_eggname = 'Messkit'
+    app_pypiname = 'Messkit'
 
-        self.rprint("\n\t[blue]Welcome to Messkit![/blue]")
-        self.rprint("\n\tThis tool will install and configure a new app.")
-        self.rprint("\n\t[italic]NB. You should already have created a new database in PostgreSQL or MySQL.[/italic]")
+    def do_install_steps(self):
 
-        # continue?
-        if not self.basic_prompt("continue?", True, is_bool=True):
-            self.rprint()
-            sys.exit(0)
+        # first all normal steps
+        super(Install, self).do_install_steps()
 
-        # appdir must not yet exist
-        appdir = os.path.join(sys.prefix, 'app')
-        if os.path.exists(appdir):
-            self.rprint("\n\t[bold red]appdir already exists:[/bold red]  {}\n".format(appdir))
-            sys.exit(1)
+        # we also install poser..for now..?
+        self.install_poser()
 
-        # get db info
-        dbtype = self.basic_prompt('db type', 'postgresql')
-        dbhost = self.basic_prompt('db host', 'localhost')
-        dbport = self.basic_prompt('db port', '3306' if dbtype == 'mysql' else '5432')
-        dbname = self.basic_prompt('db name', 'messkit')
-        dbuser = self.basic_prompt('db user', 'rattail')
+    def put_settings(self, **kwargs):
 
-        # get db password
-        dbpass = None
-        while not dbpass:
-            dbpass = self.basic_prompt('db pass', is_password=True)
+        rattail = [os.path.join(sys.prefix, 'bin', 'rattail'),
+                   '-c', os.path.join(sys.prefix, 'app', 'silent.conf')]
 
-        # test db connection
-        self.rprint("\n\ttesting db connection... ", end='')
-        dburl = self.make_db_url(dbtype, dbhost, dbport, dbname, dbuser, dbpass)
-        error = self.test_db_connection(dburl)
-        if error:
-            self.rprint("[bold red]cannot connect![/bold red] ..error was:")
-            self.rprint("\n{}".format(error))
-            self.rprint("\n\t[bold yellow]aborting mission[/bold yellow]\n")
-            sys.exit(1)
-        self.rprint("[bold green]good[/bold green]")
+        # set falafel theme
+        cmd = rattail + ['setting-put', 'tailbone.theme', 'falafel']
+        subprocess.check_call(cmd)
 
-        # make the appdir
-        self.app.make_appdir(appdir)
+        # hide theme picker
+        cmd = rattail + ['setting-put', 'tailbone.themes.expose_picker', 'false']
+        subprocess.check_call(cmd)
 
-        # shared context for generated app files
-        context = {
-            'envdir': sys.prefix,
-            'app_package': 'messkit',
-            'app_title': "Messkit",
-            'appdir': appdir,
-            'db_url': dburl,
-            'pyramid_egg': 'Messkit',
-            'beaker_key': 'messkit',
-        }
+        # set main image
+        cmd = rattail + ['setting-put', 'tailbone.main_image_url', '/messkit/img/messkit.png']
+        subprocess.check_call(cmd)
 
-        # make config files
-        rattail_conf = self.app.make_config_file(
-            'rattail', os.path.join(appdir, 'rattail.conf'),
-            template_path=resource_path('messkit:templates/installer/rattail.conf.mako'),
-            **context)
-        quiet_conf = self.app.make_config_file('quiet', appdir)
-        web_conf = self.app.make_config_file(
-            'web-complete', os.path.join(appdir, 'web.conf'),
-            **context)
+        # set header image
+        cmd = rattail + ['setting-put', 'tailbone.header_image_url', '/messkit/img/messkit-small.png']
+        subprocess.check_call(cmd)
 
-        # make upgrade script
-        path = os.path.join(appdir, 'upgrade.sh')
-        self.app.render_mako_template(
-            resource_path('messkit:templates/installer/upgrade.sh.mako'),
-            context, output_path=path)
-        os.chmod(path, stat.S_IRWXU
-                 | stat.S_IRGRP
-                 | stat.S_IXGRP
-                 | stat.S_IROTH
-                 | stat.S_IXOTH)
+        # set favicon image
+        cmd = rattail + ['setting-put', 'tailbone.favicon_url', '/messkit/img/messkit-small.png']
+        subprocess.check_call(cmd)
 
-        self.rprint("\n\tappdir created at:  [bold green]{}[/bold green]".format(appdir))
+        # set default grid page size
+        cmd = rattail + ['setting-put', 'tailbone.grid.default_pagesize', '20']
+        subprocess.check_call(cmd)
 
-        bindir = os.path.join(sys.prefix, 'bin')
-
-        schema_installed = False
-        if self.basic_prompt("install db schema?", True, is_bool=True):
-            self.rprint()
-
-            # install db schema
-            alembic = os.path.join(bindir, 'alembic')
-            cmd = [alembic, '-c', rattail_conf, 'upgrade', 'heads']
-            subprocess.check_call(cmd)
-            schema_installed = True
-
-            rattail = os.path.join(bindir, 'rattail')
-
-            # set falafel theme
-            cmd = [rattail, '-c', quiet_conf, '--no-versioning',
-                   'setting-put', 'tailbone.theme', 'falafel']
-            subprocess.check_call(cmd)
-
-            # set main image
-            cmd = [rattail, '-c', quiet_conf, '--no-versioning',
-                   'setting-put', 'tailbone.main_image_url', '/messkit/img/messkit.png']
-            subprocess.check_call(cmd)
-
-            # set header image
-            cmd = [rattail, '-c', quiet_conf, '--no-versioning',
-                   'setting-put', 'tailbone.header_image_url', '/messkit/img/messkit-small.png']
-            subprocess.check_call(cmd)
-
-            # set favicon image
-            cmd = [rattail, '-c', quiet_conf, '--no-versioning',
-                   'setting-put', 'tailbone.favicon_url', '/messkit/img/messkit-small.png']
-            subprocess.check_call(cmd)
-
-            self.rprint("\n\tdb schema installed to:  [bold green]{}[/bold green]".format(
-                obfuscate_url_pw(dburl)))
-
-            if self.basic_prompt("create admin user?", True, is_bool=True):
-
-                # get admin credentials
-                username = self.basic_prompt('admin username', 'admin')
-                password = None
-                while not password:
-                    password = self.basic_prompt('admin password', is_password=True)
-                    if password:
-                        confirm = self.basic_prompt('confirm password', is_password=True)
-                        if not confirm or confirm != password:
-                            self.rprint("[bold yellow]passwords did not match[/bold yellow]")
-                            password = None
-                fullname = self.basic_prompt('full name')
-
-                self.rprint()
-
-                # make admin user
-                rattail = os.path.join(bindir, 'rattail')
-                cmd = [rattail, '-c', quiet_conf, 'make-user', '-A', username,
-                       '--password', password]
-                if fullname:
-                    cmd.extend(['--full-name', fullname])
-                subprocess.check_call(cmd)
-
-                self.rprint("\n\tadmin user created:  [bold green]{}[/bold green]".format(
-                    username))
-
-        if self.basic_prompt("make poser dir?", True, is_bool=True):
-            self.rprint()
-
-            # make poser dir
-            poser_handler = self.app.get_poser_handler()
-            poserdir = poser_handler.make_poser_dir()
-
-            self.rprint("\n\tposer dir created:  [bold green]{}[/bold green]".format(
-                poserdir))
-
-        self.rprint("\n\t[bold green]initial setup is complete![/bold green]")
-
-        if schema_installed:
-            self.rprint("\n\tyou can run the web app with this command:")
-            pserve = os.path.join(bindir, 'pserve')
-            self.rprint("\n\t[blue]{} file+ini:{}[/blue]".format(pserve, web_conf))
+    def install_poser(self):
+        if not self.basic_prompt("make poser dir?", True, is_bool=True):
+            return False
 
         self.rprint()
 
-        # TODO: somewhere should ask about apache proxy, https etc.?
+        # make poser dir
+        poser_handler = self.app.get_poser_handler()
+        poserdir = poser_handler.make_poser_dir()
 
-    def make_db_url(self, dbtype, dbhost, dbport, dbname, dbuser, dbpass):
-        try:
-            # newer style
-            from sqlalchemy.engine import URL
-            factory = URL.create
-        except ImportError:
-            # older style
-            from sqlalchemy.engine.url import URL
-            factory = URL
-
-        if dbtype == 'mysql':
-            drivername = 'mysql+mysqlconnector'
-        else:
-            drivername = 'postgresql+psycopg2'
-
-        return factory(drivername=drivername,
-                       username=dbuser,
-                       password=dbpass,
-                       host=dbhost,
-                       port=dbport,
-                       database=dbname)
-
-    def test_db_connection(self, url):
-        engine = sa.create_engine(url)
-
-        # check for random table; does not matter if it exists, we
-        # just need to test interaction and this is a neutral way
-        try:
-            engine.has_table('whatever')
-        except Exception as error:
-            return str(error)
+        self.rprint("\n\tposer dir created:  [bold green]{}[/bold green]".format(
+            poserdir))
+        return True
diff --git a/messkit/config.py b/messkit/config.py
index 5515456..9a63be3 100644
--- a/messkit/config.py
+++ b/messkit/config.py
@@ -2,7 +2,7 @@
 ######################################################################
 #
 #  Messkit -- Generic-ish Data Utility App
-#  Copyright © 2022 Lance Edgar
+#  Copyright © 2022-2023 Lance Edgar
 #
 #  This file is part of Messkit.
 #
@@ -42,7 +42,7 @@ class MesskitConfig(ConfigExtension):
         config.setdefault('rattail', 'app_title', "Messkit")
         config.setdefault('rattail', 'app_class_prefix', 'Messkit')
         config.setdefault('rattail', 'app_table_prefix', 'messkit')
-        config.setdefault('tailbone', 'menus', 'messkit.web.menus')
+        config.setdefault('tailbone.menus', 'handler', 'messkit.web.menus:MesskitMenuHandler')
         config.setdefault('rattail', 'enum', 'messkit.enum')
         config.setdefault('rattail', 'model', 'messkit.db.model')
         config.setdefault('rattail.mail', 'emails', 'messkit.emails')
diff --git a/messkit/templates/installer/rattail.conf.mako b/messkit/templates/installer/rattail.conf.mako
deleted file mode 100644
index 0a2a617..0000000
--- a/messkit/templates/installer/rattail.conf.mako
+++ /dev/null
@@ -1,146 +0,0 @@
-## -*- mode: conf; -*-
-
-<%text>############################################################</%text>
-#
-# ${app_title} core config
-#
-<%text>############################################################</%text>
-
-
-<%text>##############################</%text>
-# rattail
-<%text>##############################</%text>
-
-[rattail]
-app_package = ${app_package}
-timezone.default = ${timezone}
-appdir = ${appdir}
-datadir = ${os.path.join(appdir, 'data')}
-batch.files = ${os.path.join(appdir, 'data', 'batch')}
-workdir = ${os.path.join(appdir, 'work')}
-export.files = ${os.path.join(appdir, 'data', 'exports')}
-
-[rattail.config]
-# require = /etc/rattail/rattail.conf
-configure_logging = true
-usedb = true
-preferdb = true
-
-[rattail.db]
-default.url = ${db_url}
-versioning.enabled = true
-
-[rattail.mail]
-
-# this is the global email shutoff switch
-#send_emails = false
-
-# recommended setup is to always talk to postfix on localhost and then
-# it can handle any need complexities, e.g. sending to relay
-smtp.server = localhost
-
-# by default only email templates from rattail proper are used
-templates = rattail:templates/mail
-
-# this is the "default" email profile, from which all others initially
-# inherit, but most/all profiles will override these values
-default.prefix = [${app_title}]
-default.from = rattail@localhost
-default.to = root@localhost
-# nb. in test environment it can be useful to disable by default, and
-# then selectively enable certain (e.g. feedback, upgrade) emails
-#default.enabled = false
-
-[rattail.upgrades]
-command = ${os.path.join(appdir, 'upgrade.sh')} --verbose
-files = ${os.path.join(appdir, 'data', 'upgrades')}
-
-
-<%text>##############################</%text>
-# alembic
-<%text>##############################</%text>
-
-[alembic]
-script_location = rattail.db:alembic
-version_locations = rattail.db:alembic/versions
-
-
-<%text>##############################</%text>
-# logging
-<%text>##############################</%text>
-
-[loggers]
-keys = root, exc_logger, beaker, txn, sqlalchemy, django_db, flufl_bounce, requests
-
-[handlers]
-keys = file, console, email
-
-[formatters]
-keys = generic, console
-
-[logger_root]
-handlers = file, console
-level = DEBUG
-
-[logger_exc_logger]
-qualname = exc_logger
-handlers = email
-level = ERROR
-
-[logger_beaker]
-qualname = beaker
-handlers =
-level = INFO
-
-[logger_txn]
-qualname = txn
-handlers =
-level = INFO
-
-[logger_sqlalchemy]
-qualname = sqlalchemy.engine
-handlers =
-# handlers = file
-# level = INFO
-
-[logger_django_db]
-qualname = django.db.backends
-handlers =
-level = INFO
-# level = DEBUG
-
-[logger_flufl_bounce]
-qualname = flufl.bounce
-handlers =
-level = WARNING
-
-[logger_requests]
-qualname = requests
-handlers =
-# level = WARNING
-
-[handler_file]
-class = handlers.RotatingFileHandler
-args = (${repr(os.path.join(appdir, 'log', 'rattail.log'))}, 'a', 1000000, 100, 'utf_8')
-formatter = generic
-
-[handler_console]
-class = StreamHandler
-args = (sys.stderr,)
-formatter = console
-# formatter = generic
-# level = INFO
-# level = WARNING
-
-[handler_email]
-class = handlers.SMTPHandler
-args = ('localhost', 'rattail@localhost', ['root@localhost'], "[Rattail] Logging")
-formatter = generic
-level = ERROR
-
-[formatter_generic]
-format = %(asctime)s %(levelname)-5.5s [%(name)s][%(threadName)s] %(funcName)s: %(message)s
-datefmt = %Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S
-
-[formatter_console]
-format = %(levelname)-5.5s [%(name)s][%(threadName)s] %(funcName)s: %(message)s
diff --git a/messkit/templates/installer/upgrade.sh.mako b/messkit/templates/installer/upgrade.sh.mako
deleted file mode 100755
index 29ff792..0000000
--- a/messkit/templates/installer/upgrade.sh.mako
+++ /dev/null
@@ -1,29 +0,0 @@
-#!/bin/sh -e
-<%text>##################################################</%text>
-#
-# upgrade script for ${app_title} app
-#
-<%text>##################################################</%text>
-
-if [ "$1" = "--verbose" ]; then
-    VERBOSE='--verbose'
-    QUIET=
-else
-    VERBOSE=
-    QUIET='--quiet'
-fi
-
-cd ${envdir}
-
-PIP='bin/pip'
-ALEMBIC='bin/alembic'
-
-# upgrade pip and friends
-$PIP install $QUIET --disable-pip-version-check --upgrade pip
-$PIP install $QUIET --upgrade setuptools wheel
-
-# upgrade app proper
-$PIP install $QUIET --upgrade --upgrade-strategy eager Messkit
-
-# migrate schema
-$ALEMBIC -c app/rattail.conf upgrade heads
diff --git a/messkit/web/menus.py b/messkit/web/menus.py
index 7071c75..7124e50 100644
--- a/messkit/web/menus.py
+++ b/messkit/web/menus.py
@@ -2,7 +2,7 @@
 ######################################################################
 #
 #  Messkit -- Generic-ish Data Utility App
-#  Copyright © 2022 Lance Edgar
+#  Copyright © 2022-2023 Lance Edgar
 #
 #  This file is part of Messkit.
 #
@@ -24,97 +24,36 @@
 Web Menus
 """
 
+from tailbone import menus as base
 
-def simple_menus(request):
 
-    people_menu = {
-        'title': "People",
-        'type': 'menu',
-        'items': [
-            {
-                'title': "All People",
-                'route': 'people',
-                'perm': 'people.list',
-            },
-        ],
-    }
+class MesskitMenuHandler(base.MenuHandler):
+    """
+    Messkit menu handler
+    """
 
-    reports_menu = {
-        'title': "Reports",
-        'type': 'menu',
-        'items': [
-            {
-                'title': "New Report",
-                'route': 'report_output.create',
-                'perm': 'report_output.create',
-            },
-            {
-                'title': "Generated Reports",
-                'route': 'report_output',
-                'perm': 'report_output.list',
-            },
-            {
-                'title': "Problem Reports",
-                'route': 'problem_reports',
-                'perm': 'problem_reports.list',
-            },
-            {'type': 'sep'},
-            {
-                'title': "Poser Reports",
-                'route': 'poser_reports',
-                'perm': 'poser_reports.list',
-            },
-        ],
-    }
+    def make_menus(self, request, **kwargs):
 
-    admin_menu = {
-        'title': "Admin",
-        'type': 'menu',
-        'items': [
-            {
-                'title': "Users",
-                'route': 'users',
-                'perm': 'users.list',
-            },
-            {
-                'title': "Roles",
-                'route': 'roles',
-                'perm': 'roles.list',
-            },
-            {'type': 'sep'},
-            {
-                'title': "App Settings",
-                'route': 'appsettings',
-                'perm': 'settings.list',
-            },
-            {
-                'title': "Email Settings",
-                'route': 'emailprofiles',
-                'perm': 'emailprofiles.list',
-            },
-            {
-                'title': "Raw Settings",
-                'route': 'settings',
-                'perm': 'settings.list',
-            },
-            {'type': 'sep'},
-            {
-                'title': "Tables",
-                'route': 'tables',
-                'perm': 'tables.list',
-            },
-            {
-                'title': "Messkit Upgrades",
-                'route': 'upgrades',
-                'perm': 'upgrades.list',
-            },
-        ],
-    }
+        people_menu = {
+            'title': "People",
+            'type': 'menu',
+            'items': [
+                {
+                    'title': "All People",
+                    'route': 'people',
+                    'perm': 'people.list',
+                },
+            ],
+        }
 
-    menus = [
-        people_menu,
-        reports_menu,
-        admin_menu,
-    ]
+        reports_menu = self.make_reports_menu(request, include_poser=True)
 
-    return menus
+        admin_menu = self.make_admin_menu(request, include_stores=False)
+
+        menus = [
+            people_menu,
+            reports_menu,
+            admin_menu,
+        ]
+
+        return menus
diff --git a/messkit/web/views/__init__.py b/messkit/web/views/__init__.py
index bd7ffa9..378c518 100644
--- a/messkit/web/views/__init__.py
+++ b/messkit/web/views/__init__.py
@@ -2,7 +2,7 @@
 ######################################################################
 #
 #  Messkit -- Generic-ish Data Utility App
-#  Copyright © 2022 Lance Edgar
+#  Copyright © 2022-2023 Lance Edgar
 #
 #  This file is part of Messkit.
 #
@@ -30,8 +30,6 @@ from tailbone.util import include_configured_views
 def includeme(config):
 
     config.include('tailbone.views.essentials')
-
     config.include('tailbone.views.poser')
-    config.include('tailbone.views.reports')
 
     include_configured_views(config)